i'm just looking at statistics here. we got the biggest vote ever in the history of a primary in iowa by, like, 60,000 people came out extra. i'm not going to say that was me, but believe me, it was me. [ laughter ] >> good morning, it's wednesday, february 3, here we are in washington. >> howard is already laughing. >> you have quite a day ahead of you. we have a lot to talk about, howard dean. howard dean is with us, washington anchor for bbc world news america katty kay is with us as well. former chair of the dnc howard dean. abc news political commentator

and npr senior analyst cokie roberts is with us, republican pollster and columnist in and the washington examiner kristin soltis anderson along with willie geist. >> great to have everybody here. >> we should let everyone know we're going to have donald trump joining us and bernie sanders is going to be joining us as well from vermont and there's word they're considering contesting the results in iowa so we'll be talking about that. >> that's interesting because howard dean has already put it down as a landslide so we'll get to that in a second. cokie, i always love -- and it happens after iowa, you can go back to '76 and go back to '80 and big mo and othall that othe stuff. that's what bush was talking about with reagan. getting on twitter yesterday was a mistake because it was like the end of history. iowa has voted, this is the end

of political history. just like that book "the end of history" when the soviet union fell. and we always know, iowa confounds because new hampshire is a completely polar opposite electorate. >> different state. completely different state. i mean, 64% of the republicans who voted in the caucuses in iowa were evangelical or born-again christians and that's not going to be true in new hampshire. >> 64%. >> 64%. and 85% -- 85% -- call themselves conservative or very conservative. and most of those were very conservative and they went for cruz big time. >> yeah. and you go to new hampshire, howard dean, a bordering state of your home state, it's completely different, especially on the religious side of things. it's one of the least religious states in america. you go from an electorate that's one of the most religious to one that's one of the least. >> i would say new hampshire

republican voters have a strong libertarian streak to them and that changes everything. so this will be a completely different race and critical race for marco rubio. >> well, after a second-place finish in iowa. donald trump is now back on the campaign trail and yesterday trump had a lot to say about the state of the republican race, including what his campaign might have done differently in iowa. >> i came in second. i came in a strong second. i think we did very well. i didn't expect to do so well. i guess what did happen is one poll came out that said i'm four or five points ahead and that maybe built up a false expectation for some people. i spent far less than anybody else and had i known i was going to be liked as much as i am in iowa and people did like me, you will understand that, i would have maybe spent a little bit more and i would have been there a little bit more and maybe i would have won it. >> i think it could have been the debate. i think some people were disappointed that i didn't go in the debate. if i had it to do again, i would have done the exact same thing

and the reason is, you know why? because i raised $6 million for the vets in one hour. so if i took a second place instead of a first place and could give the vets $6 million, i'll do that all day long. >> it just didn't resonate. according to the "washington post," cokie and i were talking, of the top six candidates in monday night's caucuses, trump spent the least per vote, just $300 each, compared to $600 for marco rubio and $700 for ted cruz. while ben carson put down $3,100 per vote, ow. and jeb bush spent a whopping $5,200 dollars. per vote? >> those people would have liked to just get the cash. >> and, by the way, that doesn't include the super pacs. >> that's not right. there's something wrong. >> trump doesn't have a super pac, rubio, cruz, all the others have super pacs. you have super pacs, those numbers for everybody but trump skyrocket. anyway, trump commented on the

amount that bush spent. not surprised. >> you know, you could have won the election, just promise everybody a thousand bucks and you could have won it. you would have saved money. right? [ laughter ] you would have won. you would have saved a lot of money. that's got to be a record, right? is that in the guinness book -- would you check the guinness book of world records? [ laughter ] >> oh, my gosh. trump also kept his focus on -- >> you know what? >> i know. >> people thought he was going to be thrown off by coming in second place. no. >> for second he was. well, for about four minutes when he gave the concession speech then there was silence on twitter for 10 hours. >> well, he may have gone to sleep. >> back in new york. but he wasn't thrown off, you're right. came roaring back. >> i said this yesterday, it was dead serious. this is a guy who held a press conference in new york city when he was $9 billion in debt and somebody -- he said "hey, hey, excuse me, excuse me." could anybody $9 billion in debt please raise your stands in

okay, none of you know what it's like to be $9 billion in debt. i do. and he goes i'll take it. then he turns to the banks and goes "go ahead, bankrupt me. you'll lose all your money. or work with me and i'll get rich and you'll get your money back with interest." i'm making a serious point here. losing by 3,000 votes in an iowa caucus is not as big as the setbacks this guy has been through before where you're $9 billion in debt and for people that thing he was going to melt and go away, it's one more example of them underestimating him. >> willie, i would also just say that his was quite impressive. this is not trump petting, this is facts. he's never been in politics before. the highest turnout in politics? >> but some of that might have been turnout against him.

some of the evangelicals could have come to the caucuses for the purposes of voting against donald trump. >> is it not impressive and historic? >> he got more votes than anybody else, willie, in the history of the republican caucuses other than ted cruz who beat him. >> if you looked at that result until a vacuum the other night and saw that donald trump, new york city billionaire, reality tv show host, finished second and got 24%, if you said that six months ago or when he entered the race you would have been stunned and impressed by it. the problem is, 10 polls leading up to iowa showed him up by so much but there was an expectation he was going to win iowa. the question will be in new hampshire, do we question the polls going forward? the polls are such a staple of his stump speech. he gets up and reads the polls and shows how much he is ahead by. can we still rely on those polls after iowa? >> i was going to go to kristen for a second, and i will, but i have to go to howard because he knows it anybody else. i said in the morning of the

caucus, i said if this were new hampshire, i'd bet whatever i had trump was going to win by a couple digits. >> i think that's right. >> if it were any primary in america i would bet all my money -- if i bet, and i don't -- that trump was going to win by double digits. i said this was a caucus. people that are trying to draw generalities on what happens in iowa are fools. >> that's right. iowa is unique. i think the big test in iowa is organization. that's what it does. the results -- they matter, of course they matter because they're spin and they're -- but i think you're 100% right. if he'd had those numbers in new hampshire -- i can't wait to see what the post-iowa and new hampshire polls are because that's going to be pretty indicative of what's likely to happen in new hampshire. >> chris, let me ask you about the polls that willie was bringing up. donald trump hated the "des moines register." >> that's a bad thing. i tell you from personal

experience. that's a bad thing. [ laughter ] >> "what not do," by howard. >> but at the end of the day they got their revenge by putting out a bad poll. the revenge was they put out a bad poll that said he was five, six, seven points ahead. and we all said it's a gold standard. they're always right and he's going to win. >> the "des moines register" poll was considered the gold standard in part because they were viewed as keeping a tighter screen on who they thought was going to show up, having a bert idea of what the caucuses would look like. yesterday ann selzer, their pollster, put out a great postmortem on what happened but donald trump was his favorite trumpeter of these pollsters. he would say iowa was the core of his game. but it's an expectations game. you want expectations to be high enough where people think you're strong but not so high a second-place finish looks like a loss.

he may be learning the limits of selling himself. >> but also this new york billionaire thing is real. ted cruz really road that new york values and, in fact, only 5% of the people in those caucuses said he shared their values. 5%. so i think what you got a turnout against donald trump. >> there a very specific place. trump also kept his focus on ted cruz. he tweeted "anyone who watched ted cruz's far too long overly flamboyant rambling speech last night would say that was his howard dean moment." we'll let howard comment on that. and in new hampshire last night, trump accepted the endorsement of former u.s. senator scott brown of massachusetts and countered cruz's recent attack that trump supports universal health care. >> i have been opposed to obamacare from the day they conceived it and ted cruz comes out with an ad that i'm in favor of obamacare. can you believe this?

all of a sudden i see an add or something, donald trump is in favor of obamacare. and people are calling "oh, i thought you were against it, that's too bad." what kind of people do we have running for office? honestly, really, really dishonest and i think i know why. you know why? because he was bosrn in canada! [ laughter ] >> that was fantastic. >> what a punch line! unbelievable. >> you know why? >> canucks all like, right? what 's this aboot? >> i need to know what it's "aboot" when he said howard dean moment. >> well, the popular meme is that the scream speech destroyed the campaign. that's not true. what destroyed the campaign is i came in third when i was supposed to come in first. so donald is not only a showman but he doesn't know about history. >> third is not first, right? correct? >> well, yeah.

>> will you please call marco rubio for me? let him know. >> i -- you know, i'm skeptical about spin, as we all are, but marco, i think, was the very biggest winner on thursday. >> in third? so there's two things going on at the same time. who's going to be the establishment candidate against ted cruz donald trump and who will get the nomination? new hampshire is big for rubio. if he comes in third after cruz and trump he's on the way and the other guys are dead. >> catt katty, it's all expecta. if a governor from vermont were to finish second and came in third he would have won new hampshire and would have been completely different story. he surged to the front of the field then finished third. same thing with trump. if trump had stayed in second place. if the "des moines register" and these other polls didn't have him in first then he would have been going to new hampshire.

this is all a game of expectations. >> first of all, anyone comparing ted cruz to howard dean makes american politics so delicious. [ laughter ] how fab house have that? it's like financial markets. you're going to buy coca-cola, you expect them to earn $6 billion, they earn $4 billion, they disappoint you. >> howard mentioned marco rubio's success in third. willie geist, take the next. >> a lot of fire is being trained on new hampshire based on what he did in iowa. new jersey governor chris christie who staked his campaign on new hampshire left iowa early for new hampshire before caucusing even began. he finished in 10th place in iowa, getting fewer than 4,000 votes. on the trail yesterday, governor christie trained his sights on marco rubio, pummelling him in front of the press. >> i'm going to work, love you guys, follow me around all you want. you know me, unlike these other campaigns, i'm not boy in the bubble.

we know who the boy in the bubble is, who never answers your questions, who's constantly scripted and controlled because he can't answer your questions. so when senator rubio gets here, when the boy in the bubble gets here, i hope you ask him some questions. because it's time for him to start answering questions. he wants to say this race is over and it's all him? seems to me he should have to sit across from you and answer your questions the way i do. and you, and you, and you. and he hasn't. so now it's time for him to man up and step up and stop letting all of his handlers write his speeches and handle him. that's what they do. that's what you have to do for somebody who's never been in an election. so that's what you have to do, you have to get the boy out n the bubble out of the bubble. let's see he'll gaggle with you everyday like i gaggle with you everyday when i'm here. let's see if he'll answer your questions because i don't think he will and you know why? i don't think he can. he wants to sit here and answer your tough questions about his flip-flops on immigration, he wants to answer your tough

questions about his lack of record and experience, he wants to answer your questions about why he ran away from his own immigration bill when it got too hot, i'm fascinated to hear the answers and i'm sure you will be, too. maybe he'll answer more than two or three questions at a town hall meeting and do more than 40 minutes on a little stage telling everybody his canned speech he's memorized. this isn't the student council election, this is an election for president of the united states. let's get the boy in the bubble out of the bubble and let's see it play next week in new hampshire. i'm ready to play, i hope he is. i'll be ready to see him saturday night. >> ooh. there you go. chris christie talking about marco rubio. marco rubio's response was "well, it's been a tough couple days for chris christie given his numbers in iowa." he said "he'll probably regret some of the things he said yesterday." >> so you're saying chris christie is going to be marco's vice president? >> that's exactly my reaction. [ laughter ] >> that was -- and i hear it was unprovoked or -- it just came

out of -- >> well, listen -- >> there must be a lot of frustration. >> his political life is passing before his eyes. >> but why marco rubio? >> because rubio came in third and he's now the favorite for the establishment candidate. this is christie's last out. bush has a shot because his name is bush and he's got $50 million in his super pac. for christie and kasich, this is their only shot and they have to beat marco rubio in new hampshire. >> and kasich has been saying it. it's been endearing. he's going around to voters in new hampshire saying "please, please, please, vote for me because if you don't i'm dead. i'm history." [ laughter ] >> that's the opposite of the donald trump i'm a winner and everyone loves a winner story. >> and kristen, if a couple of these guys don't finish ahead of marco rubio -- >> right. >> they could come in third place here because let's say trump is one and two. in the establishment lane if jeb doesn't finish ahead of marco in new hampshire after staking his whole campaign on it, if kasich doesn't finish ahead of him, if

christie doesn't finish ahead of him, their campaigns are mortally wounded, aren't they? >> the things you need to keep going rethey are organization or attention. donald trump has thrived by having a lot of attention, even if, in say, iowa his organization wasn't where someone like a ted cruz's was. but if you're not part of the conversation and you're someone like a christie or kasich who wasn't top three or close to top three in iowa and you don't make that threshold in new hampshire either, you fall out of the conversation. and at that point unless you have a whole army of people knocking on doors and getting out the vote for you in these other states, if you don't have another shot at a state that would like you until march 1, you're out of the headlines for a month, that's a tough place to be. >> jeb bush can go to south carolina. >> right. >> and marco rubio is getting the endorsement of tim scott, who is the most popular politician in south carolina by a long shot and ted cruz is in south carolina today. so then there's new hampshire,

then there's south carolina, then we really winnow. >> if we set up home field advantages quickly, you've got to say iowa from the beginning was ted cruz's home field advantage. >> absolutely. >> everybody would say that. so he won at home. >> in a very specific way. >> new hampshire -- and he had to one there. we said before if he didn't win there his campaign was mortally wounded. new hampshire is donald trump's home field advantage. >> i agree with that. >> donald has to win in new hampshire. >> remember those focus groups long ago? >> if he doesn't win in new hampshire, he's got trouble. south carolina, i agree with you, south carolina is bush country, it's always been bushed country, it saved w in 2000 when it looked like his campaign was going to the end. so you're right, bush can carry on until south carolina. >> and he's been running ads there since october. >> but bush has to win or finish a strong second in south carolina. >> but ted cruz's advantage at the moment is that he got the attention and the organization. he has both. and even if he doesn't do

particularly well in new hampshire, he can go -- >> he's already left new hampshire. >> does he have the discipline to do the right thing? >> evangelical voters in the south are very important. not as important in iowa but very important. cruz could do much better in the south. >> he's got a message that for the folks where donald trump appeals to them because donald trump says hey, i'm a winner, ted cruz's message is "aren't you tired of republicans losing because they're not conservative enough? don't you want someone who will be a winner by activating the base?" and he can point to iowa and say "i activate the base and turn them out." the math gets dangerous when you try to say that's your general election strategy. but he's making a strong case that he's someone who can turn out large numbers of voters wh will be appealing to the conservative wing of the party that says i'm tired of losing the white house, why don't we tack far right. >> and then come to washington and be as isolated and disliked. >> well, you look, though, and cruz, though, cruz has the message, the most orthodox conservative message that will

play in every state, he's got the best organization, we saw that in iowa, and he's got as much money as anybody else. you put those three things together -- >> and he's formid-ble. >> he's terrifying the republicans on capitol hill. >> that's what i mean. >> they are so convinced -- one of them said to me recently, he said "we're all convinced it will be like goldwater, the difference is everybody liked goldwater." [ laughter ] >> if ted cruz were not ted cruz you would think that he had a much stronger shot at getting the nomination. all right, still ahead on "morning joe," donald trump joins us live in just a few minutes and bernie sanders turns his attention to the primary in his backyard. he says hillary clinton is only a progressive on some days. we'll talk to him live when he joins us live as well and monday and tuesday and wednesday of next week we are taking "morning joe" to manchester, new hampshire. we'll be live from j.d.'s tavern. if you're in the area, come join us. i'd say have a cup of coffee but it sounds like have a beer.

we'll be there bright and early counting down to the first in the nation primary. here, now is bill cakarins with dangerous night in alabama. >> i tell you what, that tornado in alabama meant business. it was a wedge tornado, one you typically see in the central plains in the springtime. look how big this was. down the highway there, it goes from the left side of your screen, you see the power flashes there. this was estimated to be a quarter to half mile wide. thankfully, no injuries, no fatalities. it stayed mostly over rural areas, there were structures destroyed and there will be clean u.n. but it could have been worse. then in iowa and nebraska and other areas, we dealt with that blizzard yesterday. here's a time lapse footage from the omaha police department. i-80 was closed for a while. let's get into this morning. the worst drive, thunderstorms no longer tornadic thunderstorms. those thunderstorms are arriving in atlanta. further to the north, we are watching wintery weather, not a lot, but a little bit in northern portions of new york, also vermont, new hampshire, and

maine. plain old rain heading for areas of pennsylvania and also the big cities in the east. let me time it out. this is 10:00 a.m. the rain crossing the appalachians, now approaching the mid-atlantic. we are in d.c., philly, and new york. looks like this afternoon that's when the heaviest rains will arrive for you and that's your best chance of airport delays. washington, d.c., light rain. the heavier rains will continue as we go throughout the middle of your day but at least it's very warm. and that snowstorm from a week ago? it's just about all gone. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back. text mom. boys have been really good today. send. let's get mark his own cell phone. nice. send. brad could use a new bike. send. [siri:] message. you decide. they're your kids. why are you guys texting grandma? it was him. it was him. keep your family connected. app-connect. on the newly redesigned passat. from volkswagen. in my business i cbailing me out my i.all the time...

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i am so thrilled that i'm coming to new hampshire after winning iowa! [ cheers and applause ] i can tell you, i've won and i've lost there, it's a lot better to win. >> last night in iowa we made history. we started off in that state, depending on the poll, 40, 50, maybe 60 points behind. no money, no political organization, and no name recognition and we fought

secretary clinton to a virtual tie. >> everybody said if there were a big turnout that would advantage senator sanders. there was a big turnout and we won. >> senator sanders, are you conceding the race in iowa? >> we want to look at some of the numbers. the last i saw is we were four delegates down. as i understand it, there were some precincts actually where delegates were won with a flip of a coin, actually. i'm not sure of that. i think there were six cases so we want to take a look at that. >> and, my gosh, everything is sort of in dispute. but it could be like coin tosses separated the two. >> well, there is a difference and cokie, we're talking about county delegates not overall delegates? also, it's -- those are the rules. >> exactly. >> those are the rules they both agreed to. >> if you don't want to play by the iowa rules, don't go to iowa. i can make a good case for not

going to iowa, but the fact is those are the rules and at first -- the first stories out were that hillary clinton had won six of the six coin tosses which would be against all odds, literally, which would give her some path to the almighty. but it turned out there were a lot more coin tosses than that and that he won some, she won some. >> and a lot to be sorted out. about 18 hours after iowa's democratic caucuses began, the associated press officially declared hillary clinton the winner. the iowa democratic party reports clinton won 49.8% of state delegate equivalents while san bernie sanders won 46.6%. my god. while there is no formal process in place for contesting iowa caucus results, a sanders aide tells msnbc they are exploring their options and senator bernie sanders joins us in our 8:00 hour. and coming up next, what can brown do you for? senator scott brown endorses

donald trump. will it help trump come in first in new hampshire after polling second in iowa? donald trump joins us live next on "morning joe." >> it will be his first interview since the caucus. >> since iowa. we'll be right back. wish your skin could bounce back as quickly as it used to? neutrogena hydro boost water gel instantly quenches skin to keep it supple and hydrated day after day. formulated with hydrating hyaluronic acid which retains up to 1000 times its weight in water this refreshing water gel plumps skin cells with intense hydration and locks it in. for supple, hydrated skin that bounces back. hydro boost. from neutrogena (two text tones) now? (text tone) excuse me. (phone tone) again? be right back. always running to the bathroom because your bladder is calling the shots? (text tone) you may have oab. enough of this.

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>> i'd love to finish first. you know, again, it would still not be horrible because you're competing against a lot of talented people that have been a

politician all their lives, i've been a politician for six months. i'd love to finish first. >> but second wouldn't be horrible? >> it wouldn't be horrible, but it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. >> it's 31 past the hour. joining us now, republican presidential candidate donald trump. it's his first interview since the iowa caucus. donald, good morning. >> good morning. >> how's it going? >> it's going good. it's going really good. >> let's talk about iowa. what happened? >> okay. >> can you hear us? >> i can hear you fine, joe. >> so the question is you talked about it some last night. what's your postmortem on iowa. what do you think happened there? >> well, i think i did well there. i came in a strong second place. i think probably if i would have -- i was told always that i could not do well in iowa. i was told don't go to iowa and i said what are you talking about and they said it's not

your place, don't there. i said i know people there, i think i'll do well. and i went there. i started in 10th place and went there, i came in, i ended up in second place. i guess there was a poll that came out that add me winning it by four or five points, a pretty close poll. but i came in second place and i'm happy with that. it's interesting that marco came in third place and one of the great victories in the history of politics and how come if he came in third place and i came in substantially better at second place, why isn't mine one of the great victories in the history of politics? they said no, no, his is, yours isn't. i said that's wonderful, i don't understand that. but i came in second place. i was satisfied. i think probably it's a place victim won if i really went there and did a little more work there. but i was satisfied with it. >> it's interesting because i've heard you talking about iowa and you said that before, it seems

like -- i guess i'd like to ask what you're learning along the way but about what worked and didn't work. it's not like you've done this before so the second place finish is fairly incredible when you look at historic lines. what worked and what didn't work in iowa? i'm curious what you think about sarah palin's involvement. was it a plus for sarah palin or a plus for you? >>. >> well; it was a plus for sara to have her. she's a very good person, she's a terrific woman. i think it was a plus. i think it helped. i think it was very good for me. and certainly ted cruz would have liked to have had her. he wanted her very badly but i think having sarah was a plus. >> so moving on to new hampshire, what have you learned from iowa that you're going to apply to new hampshire, south carolina, and other contests ahead. >> well, it's different because the caucus system is complicated.

you never know what will happen with the caucus. you think everything is fine and it's not like you walk in and vote and walk out. you're in and out in ten minutes or two minutes. the caucus system is a complex system. i was never familiar with it. i was never involved with the caucus system. don't forget, joe, i'm doing this for the first time. i'm a rookie learning fast and i do learn fast and i think we're doing really -- i think we did very well. hey, look, there were many governors and many senators in iowa that would have loved to have had the second-place finish i am doing really well in new hampshir hampshire. the response is great. i don't know if you saw the speech i had last night but we had 5,000 people pack into two massive rooms. other people were up there three or four days before, they had 200 people and 159 people.

and we had 5,000 people. it was an amazing event. and it had great chemistry going. >> let's go to willie geist in new york who has a question. >> donald, good morning, good to talk to you. >> hi, willie. >> hello, let's talk about what happened in iowa as it pertains to new hampshire. you've risen on the power of your personality and big crowds but ted cruz won iowa based on his organization. he had people working for months and months getting out to precinct, making sure voters came out. do you feel in some ways you need to have a little bit more of a conventional campaign which is to say more organization on the ground going forward and more of a team that's working on those things? >> i think we could have used a better ground game, a term i wasn't familiar with. when you hear "ground game," you say what the hell is that? [ laughter ] now i'm familiar with it. i think in retrospect we would have had a better ground game. i would have funded a better ground game but people told me my ground game was fine and by

most standards it was. don't forget, in the history of iowa i got the most votes other than one person, ted, i got the most votes in the history of iowa for the republican primary and caucus. i got a tremendous amount of vote, nobody came close. so that's in history other than the one person. so there was a lot of action we had i think 50,000 or 60,000 people more voted than last time which is tremendous and i'll take that credit. there was a lot of spirit. i brought something to the republicans and ted had said this and other people said this, i had brought something i brought a lot more eyeballs growing in looking at what we're doing and the crowds are much bigger. i think crowds are bigger for everyone. the crowds are very big for me but i think i've helped the crowds be bigger for everybody. now we had a record voter turnout in iowa. my vote was a total record.

i came in second place and it was an easy second place. i won by more than 2,000 votes. people said that marco, a good guy, but people said marco was right next to me. well, he was more than 2,000 votes away: that's a lot of votes. so i came in tan easy second and the one thing i had spoken to joe about after it happened i said sort of strange because when marco came in third they were saying it was unbelievable. in fact you would have thought he won. and i said why are they so excited about marco's thursdird place finish and people spoke derisively about my second place finish. i said to myself that's strange, i came in second, he came in third and his is a tremendous victory and mine's not. >> donald, welcome to politics. howard dean finished third in iowa and his campaign was over and marco rubio finishes third in iowa -- and hillary clinton

celebrated without ever knowing whether she won. >> it's all expectations. cokie roberts? >> mr. trump, i have to get a little plug in here. abc has a debate saturday night. are you going to show up? >> yes, i will. you know, we had a debate -- a lot of people said maybe that caused me to go down. i like the debate, i've done well in the debates, i've won a lot of the debates. some people said i've won all the debates. according to the polling i won all the debates. what did i know about debating? that wasn't what i did for a living. but i was not treated properly by fox with their memo and i said i'm not going to do it. i'm happy i didn't because i raised $6 million for the vets. i had something that night, i had basically a fund raiser for the vets and in one hour we raised $6 million so i was very happy with that and frankly i don't think i would have given up first versus second and not

give the vets $6 million. so finishing second and getting them $6 million was okay for me. but i might have been hurt by the debates by not being at the debates. >> mr. trump, it's katty kay here. i want to ask you about a tweet you wrote "i don't believe i've been given any credit by the voters for self-funding my campaign, the only one. i will keep doing it, but not worth it." what do you mean by not worth it? >> katty, i've turned down tens of millions of dollars of friends of mine that want to give -- just like i raised money for the vets. i got carl ice icahn for half a million dollars. i got perlmutter for a million dollars. so i would be the greatest fund raiser in the history of politics if i was let loose. i said that i was going to self-fund my campaign. in other words i was going to put up my money. so i don't think i get any credit for it. >> you it this's not worth self-funding your campaign? >> i'm saying with the voters.

i think it's a -- look, i don't mind taking in $200 million, $300 million. bush took in $128 million. that's peanuts compared to what i'd raise. i'd get guys to put you have so much money, $10 million easy a shot. i would have that number beaten by five times if i wanted ands here the thing. i didn't think i get any credit for self-funding my campaign. in other words the voters aren't going into the booth saying "oh, trump is self-funding his campaign, that's a big factor and therefore i'll vote for him." yet it's a very -- you're the talking about a lot of money, potentially hundreds of millions of dollars. i don't think i get the credit it's worth. >> so are you going to change possibly and possibly start taking money in the future? >> no, no. i said i'm not -- no, i said i wasn't going to change but i don't think it's fair because i'm the only one self-funding. everyone else is taking in money from the lobbyist and special

interests. >> donald, let me show you -- actually, i think you're reading that wrong. that's why people are showing up because you're not getting money from the usual suspects. i'm showing a chart right now on tv. this is not even super pac money. if this were super pac money the numbers would be a lot higher. >> this is incredible. >> if i am investing in donald trump's operation, i would invest with a guy who gets the most bang for his buck. that is you. but then there's the question should you have spent more money in iowa? you were the most efficient spender there but going to new hampshire, going to south carolina, will you spend more money to make sure you finish the deal in future states? >> joe, there's no limit on the spending. the reason i didn't spend that much in iowa is even told me i couldn't win so i went through the motions a little bit then i came in second place. i was surprised because it only

came out the last couple of days where it looked like i could win iowa with this poll. >> do you trust polls less or -- we've all put it down to how weird the caucuses are. are you still going to be trusting polls as much as before or do you think iowa's sort of a one-off? >> well, i think it is. i think polls for a caucus don't work very well. the polls for a caucus, the system is too complex. if you look through history, polls aren't very accurate for the caucus. i would say that polling, yeah, i trust polling for other things, especially when you do cumulative polling where you take many polls, put them together. i really -- i generally tend to trust it. i don't know. sometimes i wonder how that can work where they take 300 people and do a poll of the united states and it comes out accurately. the good ones come out accurately. hard to believe. >> congratulations on a strong showing in iowa. what do you think of what happened on the democratic side?

>> i think when you're flipping coins and hillary won six out of six and she got the nomination but she's flipping coins i want to find out where did she get the coin because i want it. [ laughter ] she won six out of six coins. that's crazy. >> you can take that to vegas. >> thank you very much, we'll see you in new hampshire. take care. also ahead, senator bernie sanders will be our guest live from burlington, vermont, i believe. >> so cokie, donald trump didn't sound too battered there. and he's coming to the abc debate. >> that's a good thing saturday night. but yesterday someone bought loser.com and when you clicked on it it went to his wikipedia page. so if he loses again i think that's a big problem for him. >> we'll see what happens in new hampshire. up next on "morning joe" -- >> what do you think is your

defining quality that separates you from ted cruz? >> ted cruz? [ laughter ] i didn't go to princeton and harvard law. i went to ut. [ laughter ] >> that was funny. ted cruz? >> barbara bush is coming to new hampshire. >> whoa! >> bringing in the big guns. >> taking the tease. that's exactly what he's going to do. he's bringing out mom. >> she's tough. >> she is terrific. >> we'll be right back. (burke) at farmers, we've seen almost everything, so we know how to cover almost anything. even a stag pool party. (party music) (splashing/destruction) (splashing/destruction) (burke) and we covered it, october twenty-seventh, 2014. talk to farmers. we know a thing or two because we've seen a thing or two.

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come on in. >> i admire him, and he's smart as a whip, don't get me wrong. but doing is better than talking and uniting is better than dividing. we've had now seven long years of a gifting person who can turn the phrase as good as anybody and can read a teleprompter like nobody, it's like watching a violinist play a stradivarius

violin. i've seen president obama from behind the teleprompter. he's not reading it. he's gifted. he's playing off of it. he's -- i don't have that skill. i'm okay in the speaking part of this i think, i hope. i hope you guys think i am. but i can lead. >> that was jeb bush on the trail in new hampshire trying to compare ted cruz to president obama. joining us now in washington we have pulitzer prize winning editor of the "washington post," bob woodward and jonathan cape hea -- capehart. good morning to both of you. >> jeb bush seems to be a classic example of the two different skill sets. >> winning and losing. >> i just hate it. >> winning and governing. a guy who not only on paper but who historically -- >> did a good job as governor.

>> one of the strongest governors in the country when he was doing it may not have the skill set to tap dance to began to go back. it's kind of like you say okay, if you tap dance well you can go into the operating room and operate on this guy's brain. it's something that doesn't match up. >> if there was a written test, he would win. >> that's exactly right. there's a hesitancy in his appearance always. he seems a little unsure of himself that question, what's the difference between you and cruz and he said he didn't go to princeton and harvard law school, that doesn't have to do with anything about the campaign and for people who like cruz or like princeton and harvard law school, that's a good thing. so it was a bad answer. >> i have a question for you, joe. since he was governor of florida, he had to campaign to become governor of florida. what's different between the jeb bush who campaigned to be

governor and the jeb bush who's campaigning to be president? >> i think, you know, he was always the presumptive favorite. i think he just got thrown off by trump this is a guy that didn't play by the rules. jeb always played by the rules. jeb was the good son, the one that came in on time, jeb was the guy that studied hard, jeb was the guy that didn't make his parents' crazy. that was w. jeb played by the rules. he was supposed to be the first president and i think trump threw him off. you disagree? >> i'm sure trump threw him off, he's thrown all of us off if the truth be told but i think this republican primary process, the nomination process, has gotten so crazy and the party has moved so far to the right that it's very hard for him to be the person he wants to be and win a republican nominating contest.

>> right now the debate is whether you're going to throw 11 million people out of the country overnight or whether you're going to phase it out over three days. [ laughter ] the debate has been so narrow. and so extreme. >> there are some horrible things that happened along the way. there are things that have happened along the way that fall into the category of crazy but nothing like the last time around. this is a really strong batch -- a really strong republican field. i think what we have here -- it is! kasich, jeb bush. >> that's true. >> chris christie, marco rubio. these are serious candidates, cokie. >> but they're not going anywhere. >> think about what we were dealing with 999? that was crazy. for the first time these candidates are being asked on both sides of the aisle to think on their feet. not talk to their campaigns and

advisors and mike murphy or whoever but to themselves. to their own heart, gut, and soul. and they're competing with someone who works completely on gut. >> i think there's something else going on which nobody will cop to. i'm not sure jeb bush wanted to do this in this stage in his life. >> well, that shows. >> i'm not. a lot of this is out of duty to family and i think it shows. >> but he wouldn't go through all of this without some sort of inner conviction. but voting is personal and there's a question about a communications exercise which he's not good at. >> i do think howard is right. i mean, of course, we don't need to analyze the bush family but he's the good son. his father was disappointed when he didn't run in '12 and i think for jeb family is as important as duty to country. you may see it on the campaign trail. maybe there is a slight hesitancy there. >> we'll continue this.

bob and jonathan, stay with us. this just in this morning, the sanders campaign raised $3 million in the 24 hours after his speech in iowa. bernie sanders joins us live ahead. we'll be right back. >> wow. mother, we are settlers. we settle for cable. and the simpler things in life. like our drab clothing. that's right, daughter. and homemade haircuts. exactly, boy. besides, if it weren't for wires, how would cousin tobias get his privacy? hey - shut the blanket! i need my privacy! (vo) don't be a settler. get a $100 visa prepaid card when you switch to directv. being hacked and intellectual property being stolen.

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okay, howard agrees with me. you do, don't you? >> just say you do. >> i'm intrigued. >> it's the concept of elizabeth warren as a running mate. which would solve all of her problems right now.

>> coming up at the top of the hour, the ghost of iowa. after coming in second, can donald trump bounce back in new hampshire? senator bernie sanders will be with us live during our 8:00 hour. plus -- >> this commercial airliner had to make an emergency landing after an explosion blew a gaping hole in the side of the aircraft. >> that's not good. >> we'll get a live report in just a moment. s in the know. so strap yourselves in for action flo! small business edition. oh, no! i'm up to my neck in operating costs! i'll save the day! for plumbers and bakers and scapers of lawn, she's got insurance savvy you can count on. you chipped my birdbath! now you're gonna pay! not so fast! i cover more than just cars and trucks. ♪ action flo did somebody say "insurance"? children: flo! ♪ action flo cut! can i get a smoothie, please? ooh! they got smoothies? for me.

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about politics around the table in little clusters. welcome back to "morning joe." with us on set we have former governor of vermont, former chairman of the democratic national committee howard dean. associate editor of the "washington post" bob woodward. abc news political commentator and npr senior analyst cokie roberts. pulitzer prize winning editor writer for the "washington post," jonathan capehart and in new hampshire we have robert costa. and willie geist back in new york. >> why don't we go up to new hampshire and get a report on the ground from bob costa. bob, obviously donald trump is the story going in there, his second place finish along with marco rubio. give me a tale of those two campaigns yesterday. what did you see on the ground? >> well, i landed at 4:00 a.m., joe, and i was with senator marco rubio when he went to the airport diner and he was all smiles. he was spinning to his supporters and to himself as he talked to voters at that this performance he had in iowa was a

win that will perhaps propel him here in new hampshire. that doesn't mean donald trump is shrinking away from the fight. i was with trump when he landed at the tarmac at a manchester airport at dusk, he came with his daughter ivanka. he had his swagger back. the trump we saw in his concession speech in iowa, that trump was gone, at least for now. it was back to trump cursing, having confidence. then he went to one of his trademark events, a raucous rally at an athletic center. >> so did you sense -- >> cursing. [ laughter ] >> i saw that clip about what we were going to do to isis. it really wasn't out of the cap weinberger play book. talk about the crowd there. can you do any reporting? were people talking about his loss in iowa or are new hampshire voters doing what new hampshire voters usually do and disregard the caucuses? >> they were pleased, this new hampshire crowd, that scott

brown was there, the former massachusetts senator, a moderate. a lot of these people in the trump crowd, they were a blue-collar crowd and not hard right. these were not die-hard conservatives. these were more centrist republicans but republicans who came from working class backgrounds, republicans who were concerned about immigration and trade and they like trump on his key issues. they also like his willingness to fight. and it was -- there were thousands of people there. this w this was a crowd that came to see the trump show and at a primary they're saying they're willing to show up for a few minutes. that's different than new hampshire. >> talking about new hampshire and the crowd that was just described by bob costa, it sounds a lot like that bloomberg focus group we saw about five months ago where the scales seemed to fall off of all of our eyes at the same time and we were like, wow, okay, it's the blue-collar guys and the people with tattoos and, you know, working class new hampshire people that actually seem to be

most -- a more natural fit for donald trump. >> it will be interesting to watch what happens in new hampshire. those are a lot of the voters he won in iowa, too, by the way, but it didn't turn out to be enough. i looked back through the polls. the last time donald trump trailed in any major poll in the state of new hampshire was on june 23 in a suffolk university poll. >> wow. >> that was one week after he got into the race. so he's been ahead and his lead has only grown in new hampshire since then. so it's a little bit different from iowa where he would trail and it looked like it was ted cruz's race and then trump made a surge late and led in those polls. in new hampshire, he's been rock-solid since he got into the race. >> and, cokie, we're not -- certainly nobody's spinning for donald trump. we're saying what we've said for the past six months. iowa is not a tight fit for trump. >> certainly not. >> i always said if i were donald trump and i were ahead in 49 states, i'd say that's good enough for reagan, i'm skipping iowa, i'll win my 49 states. be you go to new hampshire and

somebody that's a cruz fan might be listening and they say why aren't you guys talking about the winner. i don't think cruz will be a huge factor in this state. >> and he's not even there. he's already gone on to south carolina. >> which is a smart move for him, right? >> which is a smart move. bob just talked about trump talking about immigration last night and in the iowa entrance polls -- so funny that they're entrance -- but the one place that trump did very well was on the issue of immigration. now, not that many people cared about it. only about 13% said they cared about it, but that's where he had a huge win. i suspect we're going to hear in the next few days immigration, immigration, immigration in new hampshire. >> on the democratic side, jonathan, we're talking about iowa and new hampshire. did bernie sanders have to win iowa because -- did he have to win outright to be able to take hillary clinton down? >> sure, because, one, hillary

clinton is for a lot of people the presumptive nominee. she ran in 2008, she's been in this -- she was in the contest before. the fact that he came within -- what is it, .2% of the delegate count says a lot about his strength. but he then goes into a state that is next door to where he's a senator. it's tailor-made for him, but hillary clinton won in -- won that state in 2000, had her campaign revived in that state. but as we've all been talking about, win or lose, the big contest in new hampshire, the big contest is going to be south carolina. if bernie sanders wins new hampshire, then all eyes will be on south carolina, all eyes will be on -- >> she's got a lock on that, doesn't she? >> well, we will see. nothing about this contest i will say anything is hard and fast. >> you don't know. you don't know. >> there's no such thing as a lock. >> there's no such thing as a lock. >> let's talk about it really quickly. south carolina could shape up to be extraordinarily important

because if new hampshire plays to form and if you have actually sanders and trump winning in new hampshire, then south carolina is defining. just in this morning, the sanders campaign reports they raised $3 million in the 24 hours after his speech in iowa. they say it's the best fund-raising day the campaign has ever had. meanwhile, entrance polling from monday night's iowa democratic caucus shows a stark demographic divide between the two candidates. among caucus goers between the ages of 17 and 29 sanders won 84% of the vote. >> let's just stop right there. keep that graphic up there. >> clinton 14,%. >> bob woodward, i have never in 45 years -- >> the world is upside down. >> -- of following politics, ever seen a number that split on the youth vote. what does it mean? >> if you go to college campuses, and i have recently, it's electrified people who you

would think didn't know anything about politics. >> bernie sanders? >> yeah. sanders. >> 74-year-old socialist from vermont. >> but, remember, this -- we always talk about the rationale of the candidacy. he's got a great one -- the system is rigged. >> right. >> the system is rigged and people -- maybe they're not entirely in agreement with that but there's a lot of evidence that the system is rigged. >> howard, have you seen a number like that? how do you account far? >> i think it's because authenticity always selling to young people. that's why we did well. but the real reason is there's a lot of people with huge student loans struggling and kids are worried about the future. and bernie is an electrifying character. now, look, i'm for hillary and i've -- i think he'd be a better president but this is -- >> this is the reality. >> we need these kids. >> this is their reality. >> but look at the numbers. 18% of the people who showed up at the caucuses in that age

group. >> right. >> they showed up. >> 18%. 28% were 65 and over and they went 69% to 26% for hillary. >> that's true, cokie. but that doesn't mean this number isn't scary for the hillary camp. >> i agree. >> and after this is over, assuming we win, we have got to make a serious effort because we need those young people. >> absolutely. >> bob woodward, what a reverse fortune for the clinton dynasty where bill clinton was the future when he ran in '92. >> a long time ago. >> yeah. as cokie said, that was a long, long time ago. >> feeling old. >> those numbers also include women. >> yes. >> women from that age group who by a 2-1 margin in the last poll i saw supported bernie over a woman who's trying to be the first woman to get elected president. >> what's interesting is that

how do you condense what hillary's running on, which is like "i'll manage things well, i'll be careful, i can make deals. i can live with republicans." and that doesn't electrify people. >> so nbc's andrea mitchell asked former president bill clinton about the youth vote outcome. >> why are young voters going for sanders? do you understand that dynamic? >> absolutely. >> what is it? >> the system is rigged against you, vote for me, i'll break up the big banks, tax the billionaires and give you free college, cut the cost of health care, end of story. >> do you worry this could be a repeat of history the way obama upset her? >> no, this is very different. it's very different. he was new, different and there was almost no difference between them on the issues. there are dramatic differences. >> you don't think bernie sanders is barack obama? >> no, no, don't get me there.

no, i don't. barack obama is not bernie sande sanders. don't play cheap games here. [ laughter ] >> so, bob, you have been following and studying the clintons for a very long time. >> sorry, they can't do anything easy. you have to e-mail saga. the fbi investigation. then you have to other night hillary going out upsetting anchors on live television declaring victory while they were going "she hasn't won yet." there's always sandpaper rubbing against the conventional wisdom. >> that's all the baggage, no question about it. but then you have to go to the primaries, the elections that are going to come like on super tuesday and she may be well positioned. so it's not decided and that ice what's great about this campaign. i kind of have rarely felt that

sense that we're at a pivot point in the country and this -- whoever's going to be president has to get lots of things right and it's vital and people feel that. >> willie, what's so exciting about this campaign is like bob said, we're at a pivot point but also like we were discussing right as we went off the air the afternoon before the caucus, the hour before people went into the caucus caucuses, people said we have we didn't know that afternoon, cruz surprised, trump's numbers surprised. rubio surprised on the democratic side, bernie surprise. and here we are now going into new hampshire and we still don't have a clue what's going to happen. >> the i think monday night

caused people to pump the brakes and say we thought this was going to go one way, now we're not so sure if the polling that was so trust willed hold up going forward. it changes after every one of these races so you can't make these long-term predictions. i must say, watching bill clinton talk to andrea mitchell, he made the case for sanders inside of an hour. >> every something to show bob costa, get his reaction. he left new hampshire before caucusing began, he finished tenth place, chris christie, getting fewer than 4,000 votes. on the trail yesterday, bob, he trained his sites on marco rubio, pummelling him in front of the press. take a look. >> i'm going to work, love you guys, follow me around all you want. you know me. unlike other campaigns, i'm not the boy in the bubble.

we know who the boy in the bubble is who never answers your questions, who's constantly scripted and controlled because he can't answer your questions. because when senator rubio gets here, i hope you guys ask him some questions. it's time for him to answer questi question. it seems like he needs to answer questions from you, and you, and you. he hasn't. it's time for him to man up and step up and stop letting his handlers write his speeches and handle him. that's what they do. but that's what they have to do for somebody who's never done anything in his life. so let's get him up here. let's get the boy out of the bubble, see if he'll answer your questions. let's see if he'll gaggle with you everyday. you know why? i don't think he can: he wants to answer your tough questions about his flip-flops on immigration, he wants to answer

your tough questions about his lack of record and experience, he wants to answer your questions about why he ran away from his own immigration bill when it got too hot? i'm fascinated to hear the answers and i'm sure you will be, too. maybe he'll answer more than two or three questions at a town hall meeting and do more than 40 minutes on a town hall stage telling everybody his canned speech he's memorized over the course of his time. this isn't the student council election, everybody. this is an election for president of the united states. let's get the boy in the bubble out of the bubble. i'm ready to play i hope he is. i'll be ready to see him saturday night. >> today chris christie called you the boy in the bubble. those are strong words from christie. >> he's had a -- i think it's been a tough couple days for chris and the other guys, they're not doing well. some people react badly sometimes to adversity. this campaign isn't about personal insults. if they want to do that, that's fine, it reflects on them, not me. i'll focus on the future of the united states of america. >> that's a perfect response.

>> yup. >> it is. >> just let the guy wind on. >> he's learning from donald. >> wind on for an hour and a half then you just go "he's had a rough couple days." [ laughter ] "he's not doing well, show some sympathy for him. i'll just worry about --" >> but that was like, bam, bam, bam. he pullabmmelled him. >> bob costa, what we saw yesterday we knew was coming. people have been training their si sights on marco rubio all last week. are we going to be having bush, kasich, christie, everybody else now see rubio as their number one target to take him down as leader of the establishment wing? >> well, if you're in the mainstream wing of the republican party at this moment, it may be do or die. you've been waiting this week for a year. new hampshire is a place to launch your campaign, come back

regardless of what happened in iowa and rubio, when i was with him on the campaign trail yesterday, he is careful. he doesn't have the same kind of rapport with reporters as governor christie and others but because he's careful and sticking to his stump speech, he's not making mistakes. would we like to ask him more questions? sure. but christie is struggling because town halls could revive him but that doesn't seem to be the case. >> so we hear the same complaint, that rubio is scripted. that he looks like he's focus tested and poll tested and that he reads by a script all the ti time, stays away from the press. is christie right? is he more isolated than the other candidates? >> governor christie's analysis, of course, has a political point he's trying to make but as a reporter on serving rubio on the trail? rubio has a different way of

interacting with the press. he does have a lot of handlers around him. it's hard to ask an extemporaneous question to senator rubio. >> and how were the crowds yesterday with rubio? did you sense excitement coming off of iowa. >> i think the people in the center of the party are excited about senator rubio and they also think he's someone they could rally around. it may not have been their favorite but right now they're saying he's our guy. >> robert costa, thank you very much. bob woodward, thank you as well for being on. still ahead on "morning joe," bernie sanders joins us live from burlington, vermont. plus, live reports from new hampshire where he and hillary clinton are daring each other to debate. and monday, tuesday, and wednesday of next week we are taking "morning joe" to manchester. we'll be live from j.d.'s tavern. stop by if you here in the area. join us. you're watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪

>> i was thrilled by winning and getting that boost out of iowa, here in new hampshire where i am

at senator sanders' backyard. i know i am in a contest with your neighbor. i have the highest respect for him. we're in his backyard and i love the fact that we talk about issues. >> let's be very clear. secretary clinton ran here in 2008. secretary clinton won here in 2008. secretary clinton has a very formidable political organization and, as you know, has virtually the entire political establishment on her side. so, you know, we are taking nothing for granted. >> both democratic candidates playing the expectations game yesterday in new hampshire. with us now from manchester, new hampshire, we have msnbc political reporter kasie hunt. in derry, new hampshire, at the site of a hillary clinton event today, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. kristen, we'll start with you.

tell us about clinton's approach to new hampshire. >> [ muted ]. >> or not. or not. can you guys bring it back to me. thank you. she doesn't have any audio. let's get to kasie hunt. kasie, why don't you take it from here and look at how these candidates go into new hampshire after this razor thin finish that i guess clinton at this point can claim as a victory. >> at this point, sure, although when senator sanders talked to reporters yesterday, he's still at the point where he's refusing to say he won't contest those results in iowa because they're so close. is his response to hillary clinton being -- you know, hey, she won here in 2008 and she's had an organization, this is clinton country, bill clinton, the comeback kid in new hampshire they're back and forth

previewing for us what they might say if the other loses but i think one of the more interesting things out of yesterday. i talked to senator sanders briefly and asked him about whether or not he believes hillary clinton is a progressive. when i was in the crowd the night of the iowa caucuses when she called herself a progressive and sanders was willing to go after clinton on that point. he's been sometimes hesitant to attack clinton in a head on way, it as not part of his political brand and he said she's a progressive on some days and other days she's proud to be a moderate. that's the read on these people who are so excited about sanders. particularly younger people who have a different set of political memories and are disappointed by the obama presidency and have this sense that hillary clinton is not really truly one of them and i think another -- and you touched on this briefly before, the sanders campaign had its best

fund-raising day ever after the iowa caucuses. $3 million. they raised $1 million in just 90 minutes after his speech. >> incredible. that fund-raising every time makes you think twice about whether or not this guy -- they talk about him being unelectable, i'm not so sure. kristen welker, apparently we can hear you now. >> i'm back. >> i would love to know what you were saying about hillary clinton's approach to new hampshire. take it away. >> hi, mika. hillary clinton, i think, has a three-pronged approach. first, she's trying to down play expectations. you heard her do in the that soundbite you played in the introduction and i can tell you looking behind the scenes her campaign officials have been down playing their chances here in new hampshire for months now saying this is incredibly close. besh bernie sanders is from neighboring vermont. she's also bringing in reinforcements, top surrogate former president bill clinton out campaigning. we'll probably see chelsea

clinton and another other surrogates, gabrielle giffords, mark kelly. the other point she's trying to hit here that speaks to what kasie was talking about, she's playing up progressive credentials, that she also believes in universal health care. listen to what she had to say at a universal health care last night. >> i'm a progressive who likes to get things done, i'm a progressive who likes to make progress. funny thing. >> mika, if you're inside the campaign, one of your biggest concerns would be that younger voters favor sanders 84% to 14%. the clinton campaign doing soul searching about that. i wouldn't be surprised if we heard secretary clinton talk about college affordability and those issues. while she's campaigning here, former president bill clinton will be in south carolina. that's part of her firewall where she has a big lead over senator sanders. >> kristen welker and kasie

hunt, thank you very much. college affordability, all these issues that keep coming up is where clinton needs to go makes me think of one person. i won't say it again. she's got great surrogates on her side but she needs somebody who fills that gap. >> we could talk about the super bowl and it always goes back to elizabeth warren for you. so howard, how do you fix a problem like this? as far as the youth vote goes. does she talk about student sloans? does she talk about affordability? >> she has done that. i like bernie, he's been great for this country but he hasn't had a chance to do stuff. he's never been in executive capacity. he is more progressive in hillary than what he says but hillary is probably more progressive in terms of what she's gotten done partly as first lady. >> he's been a mayor. >> he has been a mayor. >> he's been a congressman, a senator, he's pretty qualified. >> i didn't say he was

unqualified. i'm saying it's not out of line for hillary clinton to say she's a progressive because heshe's gotten real stuff done and bernie has not been in an executive capacity where he can do that. >> i understand the argument. it's like reformer with results, i think bush did that in 2000. the problem with hillary is she supported the iraq war. she was against same-sex marriage, she was for keystone before she was against it. i personally as a republican think hillary's more of a neocon than i'm comfortable with. >> hardly a neocon, joe, please. honestly. >> you go back and look at her position positions in the state department: >> what positions in the state department make her a neocon. name one. >> well, in every question howard where -- and, by the way, this is organizing the obvious. in every situation where there was a question of whether force

should or should not be used hillary clinton was on the side of using force. and that's just a matter of record. >> the iraq war she and i have a difference of opinion, that was 15 years ago. >> kind of a big one. >> libya. >> it was also 12 years ago. what did we do wrong in libya? >> we went into libya and libya is an absolute mess because of. >> it libya was a worse mess when qaddafi was running the place and qaddafi was about to commit genocide on his people. >> let's go ba ee's go to bob a cokie. >> some of these past policies have not been great. i think a lot of it with hillary clinton has to do with style and delivery, oddly enough. >> right. >> she shouts. there's something unrelaxed about the way she is communicating and i think that just jumps off -- >> it's interesting you said that. last night i was watching her and i said to myself has nobody told her -- wait, kristen has

interesting information. >> that the microphone works? because she always keeps it up here. the genius of reagan was, cokie, reagan kept it down low. if he -- he knew how -- >> these are rallies and it's hard to do that at a rally. >> her message is fighting for us and when she's loud and feisty it's trying to support this narrative she's fighting for us. i think to the point about her delivery and presentation, another piece of this is trust. and the fact she's changed positions on the things you mentioned is why -- >> thank you, i'm writing this down right now. >> young voters don't -- the delivery is a piece of it, the changing positions is a package of i don't know that i believe what she's saying. say what you will about bernie sanders, he believes what he's saying, on the issues in iowa, she won on every issue. so it wasn't people were disagreeing with her on the issues. the issues they were polled about, the only one he won about was income inequality. here's her problem, who do you

think is honest? 10% she getsen that. >> who are her top surrogates for her? >> who cares about people like you? which is, as you know, something we use as a gold standard, 22% say that she cares about people like this them. so that's her problem. experience she gets 88%. can win, 77%. >> me car, you were asking who the surrogates were, the man who's always been considered to be the ace in the pocket actually undercuts on the trust issue more than anybody and that's bill clinton, bill clinton's approval rating was 51% a month ago. it's 39% right now. >> that's donald trump. >> that's donald trump and that's a lot of younger people saying wait a second i didn't have to make the bargain to stand by bill clinton so newt gingrich didn't get the win a lot of young kids, mika -- >> this is part of the baggage but it's also -- i'm sorry to

dwell on the tone issue but there is something here where hillary clinton suggests she's almost not comfortable with herself. >> yeah, well -- >> and self-acceptance is something that you communicate on television. >> and we're talking about rallies as well. go back and watch margaret thatcher in britain in 1975. often she would find a man in her own party she would reduce with little more than a whisper. but hillary's always up here and, again, it's just not natural to her. >> in credibility and trust and whether thinkable her she does have some gaps, i don't think her surrogates hold her up where she's weak. i'm not obsessed with elizabeth warren. find somebody else. >> you are obsessed with elizabeth warren. >> it these kids who will be strapped with $90,000 in debt or $120,000 in debt and she's making $225,000 in one hour.

it's a problem to these kids who are going to live for the rest of their lives trying to pay off college. >> she could make a case for herself if she would just lower the temperature and say look, this is what i've done, this is what i can do, this is what i believe in and kind of get off this screaming stuff. >> we have an expert on the kids right here. she's written a whole book on the kids. tell us about the ids. >> anybody under 50 is a kid. >> kristen as written a book on the subject. >> i think you're right that college affordability is a huge piece of this. and on the one hand you have bernie sanders message which is about "i want to make college free." on the republican side you have someone like marco rubio trying to talk about this precisely for the reason you mentioned that she's going to campuses, she's made this money, it undercuts the idea she's fighting for people like you. >> i disagree with that. i don't think people in america resent people who don't make

money -- >> but making it off of college kids -- >> she's not getting $225,000 for speeches in front of colleges. >> yes, she is. >> no, she's not. >> howard, it's a matter of record. >> i don't know. alex, google it and we'll give him the answer in 10 seconds. >> she's making $225,000 a speech -- >> from goldman sachs, sorry, i got that wrong. >> i've been very quiet while you guys have roasted hillary clinton. >> i'm going to let you speak. i'm telling you, though, she has been paid $225,000 speaking in front of colleges. >> there was at least one, one that we know of. >> and you don't know what it is. >> i will tell you as soon as somebody googles it. go ahead, you have the floor. >> i know hillary personally. that's why i like her. i don't recognize the person you have described in this last ten minutes of conversation. she is incredibly relaxed, one of the smartest people i ever met, she's fair and totally fact-based. so we can argue --

>> and she's terrific one on one. >> not only she's terrific one on one, she has an ability to cut to the core of an issue and get stuff done and make very -- this is the point i was trying to make earlier. if bernie wins the nomination, believe me, i'll be out there working hard for him. but what i admire about hillary is she has the ability to cut to the chase and make tough decisions based on the facts and not ideology and she's been in that chair and had to do it. >> howard, i'm not going to fight you here, i said it on the show all the time. i like hillary personally a lot. i've said it for 20 years, even in my conservative district after i met her i said "i god bad news for you, i like her." >> you have to be in front of her. >> so the question is how does the hillary that you know and like, the hillary i know and like, the hillary you know and like, how does that translate better. bob, you've spent time with her,

too. people at home have no idea how likable and disarming she is in personal. >> are you serious? >> it's not that she's likable and disarming, she's tough as hell and will make a great president. >> but he agreed there's a communications problem on television? you don't see that? >> look, i'm going to say this and get jumped for it but i have to do it. if she were a male making these kind of speeches would people be criticizing her? >> oh, my god, that's desperate. >> howard, you are wrong about the colleges -- >> if there was a man that always talked like this on stage i would have made fun of that man -- >> i think the fact that when republicans watch hillary clinton speak they are so turned off that i think it allows them to underestimate her strength as a candidate because they think how can anyone possibly like her? and i think if the warm hillary you know and love comes out i think republicans won't know how to deal with that.

>> so the bottom line is this, is it unlv or lauch? >> unlv in october of 2014, she got $25,000 then a month later ucla she got $300,000. >> i stand corrected and i was mistaken. >> so she got over $500,000 from two colleges. >> i will humbly eat crow, joe. do you have a serving of crow, please? >> i'm pretty sure she got paid over 2k4rr 00,000 -- $200,000 t york state college because i said i found it hard to believe that a senator would get paid that. >> i'll take the feathers out of my teeth. >> we'll go dig into how donald trump got organized and what that could mean for him in new hampshire. alex about to have a heart attack because we're way over. we're back in a moment. what do doctors from

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>> i would like to for the right honorable gentleman to a "washington post" article written in may. hillary clinton got paid between $250,000 and $500,000 at hamilton college. also she got paid -- here' go, simmons college, state university of new york at at banban banny -- albany, actually, that's bill clinton. forgive me.

university of miami. she also got paid -- well, that's it. oh, university of connecticut. so four or five speeches. >> so i'm taking the feathers out of having eaten crow. >> bernie sanders will be our guest in a half hour. >> i just want you to know, you doing this, we'll see that on the internet in a week. [ laughter ] >> for the legalization of marijuana. we'll be right back. dad, you can just drop me off right here.

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those phrases that everybody talks about in politics. you don't blame donald trump for that one. in new hampshire we talk about ground games. people who have strong positions here, chris christie is one of them. marco rubio is hoping new hampshire is the place he'll shine. there's a lot of talk about john kasich organizationally here but questions about where he's organized elsewhere and then ted cruz. you know i've been out with him on the campaign trail quite a bit. this is not a natural fit for him. new hampshire is not a place y you'd think he would succeed. but i want to talk about the voelg vote in new hampshire. go back to 2008. he did nothing here, he got 11% or 12% of the vote based on christian conservatives. for ted cruz, 11% 120r% of the vote may be enough for him to play in the stop three given how split the establishment lane is and ted cruz has been here more than huckabee was. he's here frequently, out trying to coalesce the christian

conservative segment people don't talk about. the other thing is he's taking it to donald trump, as you know. i was at a rally yesterday with him and here's what he said about trump. listen. >> i can tell you six weeks ago donald trump was saying everyday that i was his friend, that he loved me, that i was terrific, that i was nice. and now i'm an anchor baby. [ laughter ] >> trump, of course, with a strong lead here in new hampshire. that's the first time -- one of the first time you've heard ted cruz be that funny about the anchor baby thing and bring it up like that. >> hallie jackson, thank you. >> mike, we have a tracking poll since the iowa caucuses and we were talking about it might be too early but threest from yesterday, donald trump 38%, cruz 14%, unchanged. both unchanged. rubio 12, up two, jeb bush, 9%.

christie 6%, ben carson at 3%. right now it looks like things are unchanged one day out but the campaign has just started in earnest there. >> there are a lot of ominous signs for trump. trump folks are worried. is that a sugar high? katty and i were talking off the air that last night ppp tweeted they started a national poll and they said trump was significantly diminished in their first wave, that poll will be out tomorrow. but the trump folks we talked to are worried those iowa softness, that the inability to target and track the data weakness will carry over into new hampshire. it's another sign and there have been a lot of these over the weeks that donald trump didn't take his own campaign seriously enough soon enough. he led in every national poll

for 28 straight weeks and he found a new way to run for president and was using star power but as we saw in iowa on both sides, turning out in these caucuses and primaries is as you talked about on the show, a math problem, a mechanical problem, an organizing problem. that's the potential achilles heel. that's why chuck todd said that if hillary had clearly lost new hampshire -- lost iowa, it could cost her $50 million because you're saying you have to go all in every caucus every time. >> if you're saying that about donald trump, what then are you saying about all the other people who came in -- he came in second. so what does that say about jeb bush's campaign and everybody else who trailed? i just wonder if this is being put in perspective. >> sure, if you're leading 38-14, i want to be that guy. what trump folks are telling us is that they're worried that you can't build a data operation overnight and the operation that they thought they had in iowa, the analytics they hoped they had, those haven't been built.

you can't scale those fast enough. >> he starts with a 44 point lead right now in new hampshire so obviously he has a little more of a cushion, but can you talk about, kristen, the difference between polling for a caucus and polling for a primary? >> i'm not usually one to say that i think donald trump's analysis of the polls is right, but in this case something he said in the interview earlier in the show is true. it's harder to poll a caucus than it is a normal primary. for someone like him if you were overstating his support in the caucus, i think the overstatement may be less in a primary. because it's easier to capture this bucket of voters. he's also right, these folks saying it's hard to built a data operation overnight are absolutely correct. up to this point donald trump's strat at the gi has been communication by shotgun. spread it all across the electorate, machine gun, it hit everybody. >> that strategy worked, okay, for marco rubio who didn't show up. i mean, we heard constant

complaints that he wasn't in iowa enough. he decided to use a shotgun approach in des moines and eastern iowa and it worked for him. >> he had a really interesting approach, and it was a risky gamble. he made the calculation that people were not really going to focus on this and decide as we know they didn't, in fact, until the last minute, so why spend your time and your resources campaigning there early december that he wasn't spending enough time there, that he was dipping in and out. he really did crank up his game

that last month and he spent a lot of time in iowa. you can argue about whether his stops were effective or not and how many he did per day, but he was spending a lot of time there. you saw that in the results at the end. the fact that he got hot at the right time. you were talking about how everyone is doing do or die. john kasich has to perform here. you look at chris christie and you look at jeb bush. on the campaign trail, bush seems -- you hear all the time, he seems relaxed, confident, energetic. you go out, i was in a diner, you're talking to folks about who they like. the establishment candidates are the names that keep coming up. for these guys, this is a place where they each have to outperform the other. kasich has to be bush who has to be rubio. >> hali jackson, thank you very much. michael len, thank you very much. >> thank you. loved the java joe's show and afternoon joes. >> we're headed to manchester for more of that. coming up at 8:20 eastern time,

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for the privilege of flying higher and higher, together. ♪ i'm just looking at statistics here. we've got the biggest vote ever in the history of a primary in iowa by like 60,000 people getting up extra. i'm not going to say that was me, but believe me, it was me. >> well, good morning. it's wednesday, february 3rd. here we are in washington. >> howard's already laughing. >> i know. >> you have quite a day ahead for you. we have a lot to talk about,

howard dean moments. howard dean's with us. washington anchor for "bbc world news" america caddy kay. former governor of vermont, former chair of the dnc, howard dean. abc news political commentator and analyst cokie roberts is with us. republican pollster, kristen soltis anderson along with willie geist in new york. >> great to have everybody here. >> well, just think ahead we should let everyone know we're going to have donald trump joining us. >> and bernie sanders. >> will be joining us as well from vermont. and there's word they're considering contesting the results in iowa so we'll be talking about that. >> howard dean has already put it down as a landslide. >> we'll get to that in a second. kokie, i always love, it happens after iowa, you can go back to '76, '80, big mo, all of that

stuff. >> big mo. >> that's what bush was talking about. >> h.w. >> getting on twitter yesterday was a mistake because it was like the end of history. iowa has voted. this is the end of political history, just like the book the end of history when the soviet union fell. we always know. iowa confounds because new hampshire is a completely polar opposite -- >> different state. completely different state. i mean, more than -- 64% of the republicans who voted in the caucuses in iowa were evangelical or born again christians and that's not going to be true in new hampshire. >> 64%. >> 64%. 85%, 85% called themselves conservative or very conservative. most of those were very conservative. they went for cruz big time. >> you go to new hampshire, howard dean, a bordering state of your home state.

it is completely different, especially on the religious side of things. it's one of the least religious states in america. you go from an electorate that's the most religious to the least. >> new hampshire, republican voters have a strong libertarian streak to them. that changes everything. it really does. this is going to be a completely different race and a critical race for marco rubio. after his second place finish in iowa, donald trump is now back on the campaign trail. yesterday trump had a lot to say about the state of the republican race, including what his campaign might have done differently in iowa. >> i came in second. i came in a strong second. i think that we did very well. i didn't expect to do so well. i guess what did happen is one poll came out said i was 4 or 5 points ahead and built up a false expectation for some people. i spent far less than everybody else and had i known i was going to be liked as much as i am in iowa, people did like me, you all understand that, i would have maybe spent a little bit

more and i would have been there a little bit more and maybe i would have won it. >> i think it could have been the debate. i think some people were disappointed that i didn't go in the debate. if i had it to do again, i would have done it already. i raised $6 million for the vets in one hour. if i took a second place instead of a first place and could give the vets $6 million, i'll do that all day long. >> it just didn't -- it didn't resonate. according to the washington post, of the top six candidates in monday night's caucuses, trump spent the least per vote, just $300 each, compared to 600 for marco rubio and $700 for ted cruz while wen carson put down $3100 per vote and jeb bush spent a whopping $5200. >> per vote? per vote? >> by the way, that doesn't include the super pacs which --

>> that's just not right. >> trump doesn't have a super pac. rubio, cruz, all the others have super pac. you add the super pacs, those numbers for everybody but trump skyrocket. trump commented on the apartment that bush spent. not surprised. >> you know, you could have won the election, just promise everybody 1,000 bucks and you would have won it. you would have saved money. you would have won. you would have saved money. that's got to be a record. is that in the guinness book of world records? >> oh, my gosh. trump also kept his focus on -- >> it's just i -- you know what? >> i know. >> people thought he was going to be thrown off by coming in second but he's -- no. >> for a second he was. >> yes. >> for about four minutes when he gave that concession speech. >> four minutes. >> and then silent on twitter for ten hours. >> he may have gone to sleep. >> back in new york. >> he may. you know, the thing is -- >> but he wasn't thrown off, you're right. >> came roaring back. he was dead serious.

this is a guy who held a press conference in new york city when he was $9 billion in debt and somebody who started an election goes, hey, hey, excuse me, excuse me, could anybody who's $9 billion in debt raise their hand? he's like this, okay, none of you know what it's like to be $9 billion in debt. i do. and he goes, i'll take it. and then he turned to the banks and goes, go ahead, bankrupt me. that's fine. you'll lose all your money. or you can work with me and i'll get really rich and you'll get all your money back with interest. so what i'm saying losing by 3 -- i'm making a dead serious point here. losing by 3,000 votes in an iowa caucus is not as big as the setbacks this guy's been through before where you're $9 billion in debt and that -- for people that think he was going to melt and go away, it's one more example of them underestimating him. >> wait. wait. i would also just say that his win was quite impressive. you know, this is not trump

fitting, this is facts. he's never been in politics before and it was, what, the highest turnout iowa's ever seen in the caucus. >> part of what we're looking at there is that some of the evangelicals could have come to the caulk tuss for the purpose of voting against donald trump. >> but is it not impressive and historic his showing? >> the bottom line is that he got more votes than anybody else, willie, in the history of the republican caucuses. other than ted cruz who beat him. >> if you looked at that result in a vacuum the other night and you saw that donald trump, new york city billionaire, reality tv show host finished second and got 24%, if you had said that six months ago or when he entered the race you would have been stunned and impressed by it. the problem was the ten polls leading up to iowa showed him up by so much that there was an expectation that he was going to win iowa. the question will be in new hampshire, do we now question the polls going forward? the polls are such a staple -- >> that's a good point. >> -- of his stump speech.

he gets up and reads the polls. can we rely on those polls? >> i was going to go to kristen for a second and i will but i have to go to howard here because he knows it better than anybody else. i said on the morning of the caucus, i said, if there were new hampshire, i'd bet whatever i had that trump was going to win by double digits. >> i think that's right. i think that's right. >> if it were any primary in america if i bet, and i don't, that trump was going to win by double digits. this is a caucus. >> right. >> it's like nothing else. people trying to drawing generalities about what happens in iowa are fools or else they're ignorant. >> that's right. iowa is unique. the big test in iowa are unique. the results matter of course they matter because they're spun, but i think you're 100% right. if he had had those numbers in new hampshire -- we'll see -- i can't wait to see what the post iowa/new hampshire polls are. that's pretty indicative of what's likely to happen in new

hampshire. >> chris, let me ask you about the polls that willie was bringing up. donald trump hated the des moines register for -- >> it's a bad thing. >> for a lot of reasons. >> i can tell you from personal experience. >> whatnot to do. >> howard. >> but at the end of the day they got their revenge by putting out -- >> that's his point. >> the revenge was actually a kind of bad poll that said he was five, six, seven points ahead. we all said -- we all said it's a gold standard. they're always right. >> right. >> he's going to win. >> the des moines register poll was considered the gold standard in part because they reviewed as sort of keeping a tighter screen on who they thought was actually going to show up having a better idea of what the caucuses would actually look like. yesterday ann selser put out a great post mortgage testimony on what happened. the irony was donald trump was his favorite trumpeter of these numbers. pollsters would laugh that this

was the core of his campaign. so many of these early states it's an expectations game where you want expectations to be high enough where people think you're strong but not so high that a second place finish looks like a loss. he may be learning the limits of selling yourself too high. >> this new york billionaire thing is real. ted cruz really rode that new york values. in fact, only 5% of the people in those caucuses said he shared their values, 5%. so i think that what you've got was a turnout against donald trump. >> in a very specific place. trump also kept his focus on ted cruz. he tweeted, enone who watched all of ted cruz's far too long rambling overly flamboyant speech last night would say that was his howard dean moment. oh, and in new hampshire last night -- we'll let howard comment on that -- trump accepted the endorsement of former governor scott brown and

commented that trump supports universal health care. >> i have been opposed to obama care from the day they conceived it, and ted cruz comes out with an ad that i'm in favor of obama care. can you believe this? all of a sudden i see an ad or something, donald trump is in favor of obama care. people are calling, oh, i thought you were against it. that's too bad. what kind of people do we have running for office? no, it's honestly really, really dishonest, and i think i know why. you know why? because he was born in canada! >> oh, my god. oh, my gosh. >> that was fantastic. >> you know why? canucks all lie? >> howard -- >> spectacular. >> -- i need to know when he said howard dean moment what exactly was he saying? >> can you do it please. >> the popular meme is the

scream speech which destroyed the campaign i came in third when i was supposed to come in first. >> that would do it. >> donald is a show man but he doesn't know anything about history. >> third is not first, right? correct? >> yeah. >> third is not first? >> it's not first. >> will you please call marco rubio for me? >> i'm skeptical about spin as we all are, but marco i think was the very biggest winner on -- >> really? >> -- thursday night. absolutely. there's two primaries going on at the same time. one is who is going to be the establishment candidate against cruz and trump and the other is who's going to get the nomination. rubio broke out of the pack in a big way. new hampshire is big for him. if he comes in third after cruz and trump he's on the way and the other guys are dead. >> candidates expectations, howard dean, a governor from vermont had been expected to finish seventh in 2004 and came into third he would have come in with momentum and it would have

been a completely different story. same thing with trump. if trump had stayed in second place, if the des moines register and all the other polls didn't have him in first, then he would have been going to new hampshire. >> right. >> this is all a game of expectation. >> right. first of all, anyone comparing ted cruz to howard dean makes american politics so delicious. i mean, how fabulous is that? but it's like financial markets, right? you're going to buy coca-cola, you expect them to earn $6 billion, they earn $4 billion, they disappoint you. >> howard mentioned marco rubio's success in third. willie dwoois, take the next. >> there's a lot of fire being trained on marco rubio in new hampshire based on what he did in iowa. new jersey governor chris christie left iowa early for new hampshire before caucusing began. he finished in 10th place getting fewer than 4,000 votes did christie. on the trail yesterday governor

christie trained his sites on marco rubio punl melling him in front of the press. >> i'm going to work. love you guys. follow me around all you want. you know me, unlike some of these other campaigns, i'm not the boy in the bubble. we know who the boy in the bubble is up here, who never answers your questions, who's constantly scripted and controlled because he can't answer your questions. so when senator rubio gets here, when the boy in the bubble gets here, i hope you guys ask him some questions because it's time for him to start answering questions. he wants to say this race is over and it's all him. seems to me that he should have to sit across from you and answer the questions the way i did, and you and you and you and he hasn't. so now it's time for him to man up and step up and stop letting all of his handlers write his speeches and handle him because that's what they do. but that's what you've had to do for someone who's never done anything like that. so let's get him up here. let's get the boy in the bubble out of the bubble. let's see if he'll answer some of your questions. let's see if he'll gavel with

you guys every day i'm here. let's see if he'll answer your questions because i don't think he will. you know why? because i don't think he can. he wants to sit here and answer your tough questions about his flip-flops on immigration, he wants to answer your tough questions about his lack of record and inexperience, he wants to answer your questions about why he ran away from his own immigration bill when it got too hot, i'm fascinated to hear the answers and i'm sure you will be too. and maybe he'll answer more than two or three questions at a town hall meeting and do more than 40 minutes on a little stage telling everybody his canned speech that he's memorized over the course of his time. this isn't the student council election, everybody. this is an election for the president of the united states. let's get the boy in the bubble out of the bubble and let's see him play for the next week in new hampshire. i'm ready to play. i'm ready to see him on saturday night. >> chris christie talking about marco rubio. rubio's response, it's been a tough couple of days. he'll probably regret some of the things he said yesterday.

>> so you're saying chris christie is going to be marco's vice president? >> yeah. right. >> that was exactly my reaction. >> that was -- that was -- and i hear it was unprovoked or -- i mean, it just sort of came out of -- there must be a lot of frustration. >> his political life is passing before his eyes. >> right. >> if he doesn't come in -- >> why marco rubio? >> because rubio came in third and he's now the favorite for the establishment candidate. this is christie's last out. bush still has a shot. his name is bush. he has $50 million in his super pac. >> by the way -- >> kasich's been saying it's been endearing. he's going around to voters in new hampshire saying, please, please, please vote for me because if you don't, i'm dead. i'm history. >> it's the opposite of the donald trump i'm a winner and everyone loves a winner story. >> still ahead on "morning joe." >> hillary clinton has called herself a progressive with a plan. do you think hillary clinton is a progressive?

>> some days, yes. except when she announces that she is a moderate, and then i guess she is not a progressive. >> bernie sanders questions hillary clinton's progressive credentials. up next after an unimaginably close night in iowa. will he cruise to a blowout in new hampshire. the senator joins us live next. ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ ♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ when emergency room doctors choose an otc pain reliever for their patients muscle, back and joint pain. the medicine in advil is their #1 choice.

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that hillary clinton got paid so much money for giving paid speeches at colleges when they're fighting to pay back their loans. i want to ask you specifically, she made close to $1 million or perhaps over $1 million from speaking fees at colleges. do you think it's wrong for her to go to places like uconn and the university of buffalo and get paid $275,000 for 45 minutes on the stage. >> joe, i've got a real problem for people receiving -- for an hour's work to earn 200 plus thousand dollars i have a real problem with that. it's not just speaker's fees. i think what we're hearing from young people is a real disgust with the campaign finance system in which billionaires and wall street are putting in huge sums of money. you may have read recently secretary clinton's super pac raised $25 million. 15 million of that came from wall street and what we're trying to do is do it in a very different way. get small, individual

contributions averaging 27 bucks apiece. so i think this whole thing of money and money in politics is something the american people are deeply concerned about. >> so we put a number up earlier today. nobody around the table from bob woodward, howard dean to kokie roberts had seen anything like it before. it was the split of the young voters in iowa. bernie sanders, 84%. hillary clinton, 14% in the youth vote. we couldn't explain the huge disparity,disparity. why do you think you did so well with young voters and why do you think she's doing so poorly with young voters? >> joe, i wish i could give you a full, significant explanation. i don't have it. but this is what i'll say. two things. number one, by definition young people are idealistic, and they want our country to do more in many ways than we are currently doing. they are concerned about

institutional racism, they're concerned about a broken criminal justice system. they're very engaged on the issue of climate change and the need to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel, and obviously there's the economic reason. look, these young people for the first time in the modern history of america are looking at a situation where they may have a lower standard of living than their parents while almost all new income and wealth is going to the top 1%. they're smart. they see that and they want to see an economy that works for all, not just the billionaire class. >> so bill clinton said that, you know, you're addressing these issues by giving emotionally satisfying promises to people. when we were in iowa, what's your message.

the opposing campaign, are you electable. >> tell me. >> it's guaranteed health care. >> stop paying their fair share. >> there are 13 million jobs. making these kinds of changes, we are going to have to stand up to wall street, to corporate america, to the large campaign donors who are not particularly concerned about the needs of the middle class.

i think the american people are ready to do that. in terms of electability, well, let me just say two things. number one, look at the polls. polls go up and down, i know it, but if you compare bernie sanders versus hillary clinton in opposition to donald trump in most of the national polls, i'm doing better. in battleground states like iowa, new hampshire, wisconsin, i'm doing better. most importantly, democrats win when there is a large voter turnout. republicans win when there's a low voter turnout. i believe that our campaign is creating the kind of excitement among working people, among young people to create that large voter turnout that enables us to win up and down the line. >> senator sanders, it's katy kay here. let me take the flip side of what joe was talking about, and that's your high percentage of young voters because in iowa you only also got 35% of voters between the ages of 35 and 64 and you only got 29% of seniors. if you are going to win the democratic nomination you've got to turn those numbers around.

what is your campaign going to do about that? >> well, you're absolutely right, and we are working very hard on it. to be honest with you, while i am surprised by the kind of support we're getting from young people, i'm equally surprised by the fact that we're not getting more support from seniors. there is nobody in the senate who has fought harder for seniors. secretary clinton and i disagree on a very important issue. i want to expand social security benefits, she doesn't. i want to do it by lifting the cap on taxable income. i have taken on the pharmaceutical industry year after year who are ripping off the american people charging us the highest prices in the world hurting many, many seniors. so we are going to focus on senior issues and i think you'll see us do a lot better in that age category. >> while we continue, are you considering -- are you going to contest the iowa results? >> well, look, we did phenomenally well in iowa. we started 50 points behind and last count we're about .2 of 1%

behind. i think we have 20-21 national delegates, secretary clinton has 22. there were, i think, six precincts where if you could believe it it was a coin toss that decided the results. so we want to, you know, just speak to the iowa democratic officials, but we're really now focusing on new hampshire. >> were you bothered by the fact as most reporters were on election night that hillary clinton declared victory that it was a virtual tie and 20% of the vote had not been counted? >> you know, the clinton campaign is very heavy, joe, into spinning things. i'm sure they had a deep reason. they would get national attention, blah, blah, blah, blah. the end of the -- you know, you can talk about who won, who lost and -- but when we came from so far down taking on the most powerful political machine in the democratic party, i think we did pretty well and i think most americans recognized that.

>> there is a spin, a growing spin out there that yesterday esquire condemned that some people that are supporting hillary clinton are engaging in almost fear mongering and red baiting suggesting that a bernie sanders victory is a victory for a socialist revolution. a lot of over the top rhetoric that hillary clinton herself is embracing. would you like to address that? >> i would, joe. you know, i think people understand that when i talk about democratic socialism, we're talking about building on some fantastic programs that are so important to the american people. you know, social security. guess what, it's a socialist program. medicare is a single payer health care system for the seniors. i think it should be expanded to all people. you know, you've got the post

office, a great socialist institution. the veterans administration. what i believe is that government does have an intrinsically important role to play to make sure that all of our kids, regardless of their education, get -- regardless of the income of their families get the education they need. that's why i believe that public colleges and universities should be tuition free. i believe that in the united states we should join the rest of the industrialized world and have a pay -- guaranteed paid family and medical leave. these are not such radical ideas that i think there are folks out there trying to scare the american people. that's unfortunate. the other thing that i do believe, joe, you know this, you've heard me say it a million times, at a time of massive income and wealth inequality, when the 20 wealthiest people in this country own more wealth than the bottom 50%, i do believe that they should start paying their fair share of taxes. >> so i want to ask you also to define when you talk about a revolution, define a revolution

because, of course, everybody does this. we've been talking about the reagan revolution for 40 years and nobody suggested the republicans were going to have tanks roll down pennsylvania avenue. we talked about the gingrich revolution in 1994 when it may have seemed for some democrats like tanks were about to roll down pennsylvania avenue. >> yeah, i was one of them. yeah. right. >> exactly. i know. i was there with you. >> right. >> you were like running for -- you said, where's the fallout shelter? i just -- i am concerned that people are taking your words when you talk about a revolution, when you're obviously talking about a peaceful political -- >> of course. >> -- revolution, and they're twisting and distorting those words to suggest that you are somehow a commi and -- >> that's right. >> i'm talking democrats say this. >> joe, i think you're right. >> talk about what you mean when you say revolution.

>> good. this is what i mean, joe. you're absolutely right, and there are people who are doing that, and i think that is pretty pathetic. what do i mean by a revolution? i will tell you, political revolution. that is in the last election that we had in november 2014, do you know what, 63% of the american people didn't vote. 80% of young people didn't vote. to my mind, what a political revolution means a revitalization of american democracy. i want to see america have one of the high oes voter turnouts not one of the lowest turnouts. i want to see people get involved in the political process, be thinking about the important issues, debating the important issues. i want political consciousness to go up because i believe when that happens, when young people, working people become involved in the political process it will not just be billionaires and wealthy campaign contributors who determine what's happening in washington.

that's the thrust of everything i'm talking about. that's the political revolution, joe. >> you mentioned the word debate. people need to be debating the issues. are you going to be participating in a debate with hillary clinton tomorrow night? >> the answer is yes, and you know that i have always wanted more debates and secretary clinton in the beginning was not so interested in more debates. now suddenly they're very interested in more debates. what i wanted to see is on top of new hampshire three more debates. we were talking about california, michigan, and i wanted new york city. >> yes. >> secretary clinton represented new york seven years in the senate. i thought it would be a good idea. for some reason she's not interested in debating in new york. >> why are they suddenly interested in more debates? you said that with a little sly smile. >> well, golly gee, i don't know. it may have -- it may have something to do with the fact that the -- that the nature of this campaign has changed a little bit and now they're getting a little bit nervous, but it was interesting, as

you'll recall, way back when dnc said six debates, we had no input into that. secretary clinton said, hey, that's great, that's fine. i love debates. >> all right. bernie, it's always great talking to you. >> senator bernie sanders. thank you. >> thank you, guys. >> congratulations. >> still ahead this hour, conversation with donald trump. plus, an explosion and fire blew a gaping hole in a commercial airliner forcing it to make an emergency landing in somalia. this is what it looks like from the inside. >> oh, my gosh. >> we're going to have the incredible video and a full report next. my mom loves giving me advice. she even gives me advice...

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38 past the hour. an investigation is underway after an explosion ripped a hole in a commercial jet liner shortly after the aircraft took off in somalia yesterday. joining us from london, nbc news foreign correspondent keir simmons. keir, what do we know about this blast? >> reporter: we don't know what caused it. officials in somalia say that there's no evidence of a criminal act. other experts looking at what happened think that there is evidence to suggest it could have been an act of terrorism, but, mika, imagine that you're five minutes into your flight and suddenly an explosion rips a hole in the cap bins -- cabin that you're traveling in. you'll see how the passengers reacted when exactly that happened on tuesday. a commercial airliner makes a

dissent. oxygen masks flapping in the wind and visible from inside the cabin, a hole inside the aircraft. in this cell phone footage stunned passengers are lucky to be alive. while witnesses claim a man on fire was sucked out at 14,000 feet. there was a terrible explosion, the pilot said, according to a new hampshire. i think it was a bomb. the airbus 321 is operated by daallo airlines. from the outside black soot can be seen around the ripped open fuselage. it had taken off from somalia where al qaeda linked insurgents are wablging war. while just last year a suspected isis bomb blew apart another 2 a321 jet in egypt. the explosives hid in a soda can, 223 people died. this time officials say one passenger was killed, two were injured. the body of a 55-year-old man

discovered on the ground thought to have fallen from the air while most of the relieved passengers walked off the plane after a terrifying ordeal, one saying i think we were all in shock. >> reporter: something similar happened on a united airlines jet over the pacific in 1989. perhaps they'll look there to try to figure out what might have happened here. mika, guys, it was really stunning when you see that video is how calm those passengers were when there's a hole in their cabin. >> oh, my god. i don't know how they did it. keir simmons, thank you so much. >> right. still ahead, part of our conversation this morning with donald trump and michael warren of the weekly standard joins us. sunday night he wrote cruz fighting for his life in iowa right before he came in first place. plus -- >> we learned today, rather, that your mom will join the campaign trail this week. >> yeah. >> what message do you hope she brings here to new hampshire? >> that she loves me and that she supports me and that she thinks i'm a capable leader and

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about? they said, it's not your place, don't go there. i said, but i know people there. i think i'll do well. i went there. i started in 10th place. i went there and came in and ended up in second place. i guess there was a poll that came out that had me winning it by 4 or 5 points, pretty close poll, but i came in second place. you know, i'm happy with that. it's interesting that marco came in third place and they said it's one of the great victories in the history of politics. i said, well, how come if he came in third place and i came in substantially better at second place, why isn't mine one of the great victories in the history of politics? and they said, no, no, his is but yours isn't. i said, oh, that's wonderful. i didn't understand that. but, you know, i came in second place. you know, i was satisfied. i think probably it's a place i could have won if i really went there more and did a little more work there but, you know, i was -- i was satisfied with it. >> so, interesting, because i've heard you talking about iowa and

you said that before. it seems like -- i guess i'd like to ask what you're learning along the way about what worked and what didn't work. it's not like you've done this before so the second place finish is fairly incredible when you look at historic lines. but, for example, what worked and what didn't work in iowa? i'm curious what you think about sarah palin's involvement. was it a plus for sarah palin or a plus for you? >> well, it was a plus for sarah palin -- you know, for sarah, to have her. i think she's a very good person. she's a terrific woman. i think it was a plus. i think it helped. i think it was very good for me, and certainly ted cruz would have liked to have had her. he wanted her very badly, but i think having sarah was a plus. >> so moving on to new hampshire. what -- what have you learned from iowa that you're going to apply to new hampshire, south carolina, other contests ahead? >> well, it's a little different because the caucus system is very complicated.

i mean, you just never know what's going to happen with a caucus. you know, you think everything is fiep and it's not like you walk in and you vote and you walk out. you know, you're in and out in ten minutes or two minutes. >> right. >> the caucus system is a complex system that i was never familiar with. i was never involved with the caucus system. don't forget, joe, i'm doing this for the first time. >> right. >> i'm like a rookie. i'm learning fast, and i do learn fast, and i think we're doing really -- i think we did really well. hey, look, there were many governors and many senators in -- in iowa that would have loved to have had the second place finish. i am doing i think really well in new hampshire. the response is great. i don't know if you saw the speech i made last night, but it was -- we had 5,000 people there last night packed into two big rooms, two massive rooms, actually. they were pretty big. and it was -- it was an amazing thing. other people were up there three, four days, they had 200

people, 159 people and we had 5,000 people. it was -- it was an amazing event. >> our conversation with donald trump earlier this morning. joining us now, staff writer at the weekly standard, michael warren. good to have you with us. >> thanks for having me. >> michael, you were obviously out in iowa. talk about the importance of ted cruz winning that. it was sort of a make or break for the cruz campaign. they -- they over -- they over performed. should we expect that in contests moving forward as well? >> i don't know. i think the most important thing about ted cruz winning maybe was the fact that donald trump lost. that's a big part, i think, of i think sort of tearing down the idea that donald trump was just going to march to the nomination here. now it's going to be a long fight. i think what we're going to see is maybe a two-man, maybe a three-man race. donald trump could still win new hampshire. i think he's best positioned to do that. winning new hampshire doesn't guarantee him the nomination. he's lost before. it means he could be beaten

again. i'm interested to see who comes in second. does marco rubio ride that momentum wave. >> three, two, one. >> get a big boost. >> we had santorum win in '12. he was at 1% monday night. we had huckabee win in '08, the last two contests. he was at 2% and dropped out of the race. iowa doesn't have a great track record going back to pat robertson beating george h.w. bush in 1988. do you see it this year as a one off or do you think this year may be different? >> it all matters what the rest of the field looks like. 2000 george bush wins. he's the favorite of the field. >> steve forbes. >> then john mccain sort of shakes things up in new hampshire a little bit. ted cruz is a lot stronger than mike huckabee was or rick santorum was. he's sort of a conservative institution. he also has the sort of long-term gain with the sec primary on march 1st. he has a lot of organization in those states. he's also just sort of a natural

fit for those states being from texas and having a sort of appeal in the sec primary world. >> michael, coming out of iowa, how do you handicap the race now? has it changed how you're thinking about the race going forward in terms of cruz, rubio, and trump? >> what i'm really interested in is after new hampshire, south carolina will be a much more interesting race. if you look at south carolina and how the state has divided, it looks exactly the same going all the way back to the civil war the way it sort of splits. john mccain in 2008 wins the sort of coastal region and the columbia suburbs. mike huckabee wins the upland region. cruz is the huckabee of that race. rubio or another establishment is the mccain. what i want to know is does donald trump split more with cruz or does he split more with rubio? where is he stronger in south carolina? that's going to have a big effect about whether it's a two-man or three-man race? >> michael warren, thank you very much. >> thanks. >> i'll see what happens. new hampshire matters. >> new hampshire. yeah. >> we'll be there. we'll be right back with much more "morning joe." your path to retirement...

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all right. just in this morning, reports that another nfl great had the degenerative brain disease cte at the time of his death. "the new york times" reporting that former oakland raiders quarterback ken stabler had the disease. on a scale of one to four, stabler had high stage cte,

stage three, which is linked to repeated brain trauma. stabler died of colon cancer back in july at the age of 69. >> we're also following reports not confirmed yet by nbc but by other sources that rand paul is considering getting out of the race. it's time to talk about what we learned today. katy, what did you learn? >> i learned that the sanders campaign is concerned about its proportion of votes amongst seniors. they have to do a better job and they know it. >> i think new hampshire will be more important than ever. we're going there for three days. we're going to be at j.d.'s tavern so join us there as "morning joe" reports live on the first in the nation primary. >> no doubt about it. i learned that this race just keeps getting crazier and crazier. we didn't know what was going to happen in iowa. we're still flying blind going into new hampshire and people are already talking about the importance of south carolina. as we said earlier today, if iowa was ted cruz's home field advantage and south carolina should be jeb bush's home field advantage, new hampshire is

trump country and he needs to win there. >> did trump just tweet? is that what i'm looking at here? >> let's see here. it says ted cruz didn't win iowa, he stole it, that's why all of the polls were so wrong and why he got far more votes than anticipated. bad! i wish he had tweeted that before he came on the air. i would love to know exactly what he means. >> what he means. >> that does it for "morning joe." msnbc live picks up coverage after a quick break. >> have a good day. you totaled your brand new car. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart.

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♪jake reese, "day to feel alive"♪ good morning, i'm kate snow. we are live in manchester, new hampshire, this morning beginning with breaking news to report. republican presidential candidate rand paul is suspending his presidential campaign. the kentucky senator placed fifth in monday's iowa caucuses. he was one of the first to get into the race back in april of last year but failed to gain traction. in a statement we have just received, rand paul writes, quote, the fight is far from over. i will continue to carry the torch for liberty in the united states senate and i look forward to earning the privilege to represent the people of kentucky for another term. more on that breaking news in just a moment. but, first, why we are here in new hampshire.